Edip Yuksel Gently Exposed

Here is the post that made Edip ran away from jawaid ahmed,UK:

Edip Yuksel and 19 – Refutation by jawaid ahmed,UK

Refutation Of Edip Yuksel’s Book; Nineteen, God's Signature In Nature And Scripture

Rashad Khalifa [RK] told the world that he had discovered in the Quran a mathematical miracle based on the number 19; the number of chapters, words, letters, their numerical values, the sum of their numerical values etc. all have a connection to 19. This proves that the Quran is from Allah and no man could have produced a book with a mathematical code that was only discovered using a computer.

Edip Yuksel, an associate of RK, has carried on investigating the 19 code following the murder of RK, which any right thinking human being will unreservedly condemn, especially those who use their reason and study the Quran. 

Edip has stated that RK made some mistakes with certain counts and as such he has written a book entitled Nineteen, God's Signature in Nature and Scripture, showing the correct proofs. He has written to notable persons including Carl Sagan [now deceased], and taken part in debates on the subject as well as authoring the Reformist Translation of the Quran.

One would expect that a book consisting of 620 pages would contain all the evidence for the 19 mathematical miracle of the Quran, with solid proofs properly laid out, leaving no doubt in any clear thinking mind but, as i will clearly show, this is not the case. Only approximately half have any 'trickery evidence' for 19, the rest is personal anecdotes from people who 'saw the light' of 19 and started to worship this number. I am going to comment on those points that I found of particular interest:

1.BISMILLAH-IR-RAHMAN-IR-RAHEEM
The Arabic BISMILLAH-IR-RAHMAN-IR-RAHEEM has 19 letters in it, there are 114 bismillah verses in the Quran [114 is 19 divisible], and these are counted because they are in the Quran, even though 112 chapters do not include them in the verse count.

Remember this, Edip has included the counting of the bismillah verses though all manuscripts do not include the majority of them in the main body of the chapter. In other words, to 'prove' 19 he uses them.

2.Allah
Edip says that Allah is mentioned in the Quran a total of 2698 times [19x142], BUT, Edip now does not include the name of Allah from each of the bismillah verses, neither the Allah from surah 9 verse 129 or those with the humma suffix, eg:-

3:26 Quli ALLAHUMMA malika almulki tu/tee almulka man tashao watanziAAu almulka mimman tashao watuAAizzu man tashao watuthillu man tashao biyadika alkhayru innaka AAala kulli shay-in qadeerun

This is translated as Allah by all who use Allah throughout their translations and as God by those who use this term for Allah. 3:26 Say, "O Allah! Owner of all Dominion! You give power to nations according to Your Laws and You strip off power from nations according to Your Laws. You have established Rules for attaining honor and facing humiliation. All good emanates from Your Hand. You are all-Powerful and You have appointed due measure for all things in the Universe. Therefore Your Rule is the Rule of Law."

Is the name of Allah mentioned in Allahumma or not? This is prime example of changing the method to fix a result "if the result does not fit, you must change the method!" To be classed as a miracle the same methodology must be used.
Even if we agree to not count the derivatives of Allah, we are still left with the Allah from 9:129 which is not counted because Edip believes that this verse and 9:128 are interpolations, forgeries, in the Book of Allah.

To prove this, he gives us hadith accounts that say that certain persons questioned the two verses, and told us that there are hundreds of manuscripts [I have not come across any manuscript with this, if there were, our Christian brothers would have a field day proving our Quran is corrupted] which do not have these, but no physical or facsimile copy is provided to prove this. The belief in and use of hadith sources has been vehemently criticised by Edip , as they say they are Quran only, but now they seek to use them to help prove their own false belief.

They do not use the same hadith sources that show that the last two verses of the Quran should be treated as prayers and not a part of the body of the Quran, but that would disrupt their 114 chapter number!
Let us also agree with Edip that we cannot count Allah from the bismillah verses so from the Quranic Arabic Corpus we get:-

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Alh#(1:1:2)
• 2699 times as the proper noun allah (ٱللَّه)
• five additional times as the form of address allahumma (ٱللَّهُمَّ)
2699 divided by 19= 142.05
2699 + 5 = 2704 divided by 19 =142.31
With surah 9:129, the code 19 breaks down for Allah.

3.Raheem
Raheem, Edip says, occurs 114 times [19X6] in the Quran, BUT only with the rejection of verse 9:128. This, as explained above, is said to be a forgery because of the inclusion of a phrase they say should only be used for Allah:-

9:128 Laqad jaakum rasoolun min anfusikum AAazeezun AAalayhi ma AAanittum hareesun AAalaykum bialmu/mineena raoofun RAHEEMUN

9:128 Indeed, there has come to you (O Mankind) a Messenger, one of your own, who feels your burden. He is full of concern for your betterment, and for those who choose to believe, he is most compassionate and merciful.

Because raheem is reserved for Allah, this, Edip says, helps proves this verse is a forgery, but the Quran tells us the attributes of Allah in order to inculcate within ourselves these values as much is humanly possible. Are there not compassionate and merciful human beings, the Messenger included? What about this:-

21:107 Wama arsalnaka illa rahmatan lilAAalameena

21:107 And thus, (O Prophet) We have sent you as a Mercy for the Worlds.
Why do they not remove this 'blasphemous' forgery from the Quran? You cannot object to one and not the other. Double standards, corrupting the Quran to peddle his false belief in 19. With this raheem word included from 9:128, the 19 code breaks down.
Also, the derivatives of raheem are not counted:-

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=rHm#(1:1:4)
The triliteral root rā ḥā mīm (ر ح م) OCCURS 339 TIMES in the Quran, in nine derived forms:
• 28 times as the form I verb raḥima (رَّحِمَ)
• 12 times as the noun arḥām (أَرْحَام)
• four times as the noun arḥam (أَرْحَم)
• once as the noun ruḥ'm (رُحْم)
• 57 times as the nominal raḥmān (رَّحْمَٰن)
• 114 times as the noun raḥmat (رَحْمَة)
• 116 times as the nominal raḥīm (رَّحِيم)
• once as the noun marḥamat (مَرْحَمَة)
• six times as the active participle rāḥimīn (رَّٰحِمِين)
339 divided by 19 = 17.84, so not divisible.

Letters at the beginning of Chapter

Edip now moves on to the Arabic letters, their frequency in the chapter they are in and he claims this is a mathematical 19 miracle.

4.Qaf
The letter Qaf is at the head of chapter 50 and there are 57 words with Qaf in this chapter, divisible by 19, and Q also forms part of the HM, ASQ of chapter 42, also 57 words with Qaf, add them up and you also get 114 Qaf's [some have postulated that Q refers to the Quran, and this has 114 chapters; interesting]. Please note that Edip has used the total number of Qaf's in the chapter.

5.Saad
Chapter 7 [ALMSaad], 19 [KHYASaad] and 38 [Saad ]have the letter Saad and we are told that the frequency of saad in Chaper 39 is 29, not divisible by 19; chapter 7 has 97 Saad's, chapter 19 only 26, both not 19 coded. Now in order to fit his 19 Edip employs another method to get multiples of 19 by adding them all up to get 152, 29+97+26=152, which is 19x8.

Also, and this is where another method is employed to get a 19 result, to get 152, he has changed the word BASTATA in 7:69 from SAAD spelling to SIN. This is another 'corruption in the Quran claimed by Edip!

6.HM
HM appears in chapter 40,41,42,43,44,45 and 46. Chapter 42 has ASQ as well as HM, but these letters are ignored for counting purposes. With HM, another method is employed to get a 19 code. H appears total of 292 times in the chapter's headed by HM, not 19 divisible in any one of them and not this total either. M appears 1855 times in these chapters, also not divisible by 19, and only one chapter, 40, has a number 19 code [380 times]. So out of 14 occurrences, only one has a 19 code. To get around this, they add the totals of the H and M together and get 2147=19x113.

So now we have seen letters are counted on their own in a chapter regardless of other letters used [Q on its own when in ASQ]; they are added to the other chapter frequencies of its use, regardless of other letters [ALMSaad, KHYASaad], and now different ``letters are lumped together [H + M].

7.ASQ [S is Seen/sin]
Now another method! ASQ from chapter 42 has a total frequency of all the letters of 209 [19x11]. But he now uses the S from the bismillah verse, having previously not used it for Allah, Rahman, or Raheem; apparently, the S is much more important than Allah Who can be ignored when it suits Edip, he believes in the rasoolship of Rashad Khalifa, so anything is allowed for him.

8.KHYASaad
Chapter 19 uses these letters, add their frequency up and get 798 [19x42]. BUT ignore all the other chapters for saad and H, because this fantastic code 19 does not fit when you do it like he had just done it for other letters!

9.The Incredulous 'N'
If you thought it was safe to get back into the water, look again! N figures in chapter 68 on its own, so we have no use any excuse of adding with or without other letters, but Edip again uses the N from the uncounted bismillah line/verse. And it gets better [or worse], in order to get 133 N's [19x7], he changes the Quran yet again to suit his delusions over 19:-

THIS IS WHAT IS IN THE WORLDWIDE QURANIC MANUSCRIPTS
68:1 ن وَالْقَلَمِ وَمَا يَسْطُرُونَ
Translated as:-

68:1 Noon [N]. I swear by the pen and what the angels write
But Edip 'corrected' Allah by changing the beginning Nun to NUN WAW NUN! [page 223 of his book for those who doubt what I am writing], so increasing the count to the 19 prophetic 133. 

He also states that the Quran has been tampered with in numerous places, for example, he mentioned on page 200 that aleph's, Nun's, Seen's, Lams, and Waw's have been added ad hoc to the Quran by Shia and Sunni scholars for those who are not Arabic speakers and needed help in reading the Arabic!. In other words, he has to make his 19 miracle by removing letters from the Quran if it suits his purpose.

His claim that the Quran has been distorted is trying to prove the Quran wrong when it says that Allah will preserve it for all time:-

15:9 Indeed, it is We Ourselves Who have sent down this Reminder, and certainly, it is We Who shall guard it [6:116]. Now, I can go through the Arabic Quran and change every word Allah to YHWH or Isa, give the manuscript to Campus Crusaders or Anish Shorash to publish and distribute around the world and hey presto, an unpreserved , unguarded, corrupted Quran.

Well it is not that easy. Millions of Quran reciters will recognise and reject it, and we can compare it with the books we have. Hence, though we can produce a forgery, there will always be the genuine article to judge them by; the original is still preserved /guarded, regardless of what man can produce. Edip, your argument is lame!

10.The Plot Thickens:- IRON
This first part about iron intrigued me at first. Iron in Arabic is HDYD [hadyd] and if you add up the grammatical value of the letters based on the Arabic ABJD system of assigning numbers to letters we get 26, which is exactly the atomic number for iron, check the periodic table.

Brilliant, how could the person who made the word for iron know that it corresponded to its atomic number in the ABJD or Gematria? Miracle? You decide, but it does not work for other elements, see later on, and it is not a 19 or it's multiple. So now the con trick, AL-HDYD has a numerical value of 57, 19X3 more impressive if you believe in 19 codes.

57 is also stated on page 292 of his book as being the atomic mass of an isotope of iron, which it is, so we have beautiful conformity between the word and science. Remember the title of the book, God's Signature In Nature And Scripture; so now scripture and nature merge.

But I am not an indoctrinated, blind believer, I was brought up on the scientific method; take an idea, have a methodology to analyse it, produce results and then conclude whether the results prove the idea or not. Scepticism is my middle name! The master magician Edip cannot pull the iron rabbit out of the hat and think we are going to applaud his deception!

Iron has an atomic mass of 55.85, which is the commonest isotope comprising 91.754% of the earth's iron termed 56Fe. The atomic mass of 57 comes from only the 2.119% of 57Fe on the earth and the other stable iron of the earth is 0.282% of 58Fe. The majority iron does not have anything to do with 57!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_iron
http://www.chemicalelements.com/elements/fe.html

Also, while we are trying to persuade sheep to believe in fairy tales:-
3:14 Zuyyina lilnnasi hubbu alshshahawati mina alnnisa-i waalbaneena waalqanateeri almuqantarati mina ALTHTHAHABI WAALFIDDATI waalkhayli almusawwamati waal-anAAami waalharthi thalika mataAAu alhayati alddunya waAllahu AAindahu husnu almaabi

We would expect some miraculous 19 code for other metals mentioned in the Quran, if not everything then at least the atomic number like iron:-

Gold, DHB, atomic number 79, ABJD numbers 4+5+2=11,

Silver, FDDT, atomic number 47, ABJD numbers 80+4+4+400=488,

Adding the AL makes no difference, so if we are to make anything out of iron, then surely we should get the atomic numbers of gold and silver as well from the ABJD numbers.

That is where we go wrong; we assume that because a few coincidental occurrences of 19 happen in the Quran, more if the method is continuously fiddled, then there is a code 19 in the Quran. There is not.

I would expect that if the Quran were protected by a mathematical miracle of 19, then all the letters in it would add up to 19 as well as the words. Remove one letter or word or any multiple of letters or words and this 19 would break down. In other words, only the unique combination of letters and words in the Quran we have has this 19 protection. 

It does not, this is just idle speculation on my part and no way makes the Quran less impressive, it is the wisdom of the Quran that is for all time, not number crunching.

And where does this all originate from? [I will ignore Dr Shabbirs interpretation of the verse in question, I do not agree with him either!]

74:20 Again, woe unto him: How he determined!
74:21 And then he looked around.
74:22 And then he frowned and glared.
74:23 And then he turned away in pride.
74:24 And said, "All this is a remnant of ancient magic.
74:25 This is nothing but the speech of a human."
74:26 I shall soon cast him into Saqar.
74:27 Ah, what will convey unto you what Saqar is!
74:28 A Fire that lets not live and lets not die. [Fire of Regret, Remorse, Anguish]
74:29 Visibly written on the tablet of an individual's life.
74:30 Over it are nineteen.

74:31 We have appointed none but angelic powers (Universal Laws) to be the keepers of the Fire. And We have made their number a trial for those who are bent upon denying the truth. This admonition should grant certainty to those who received the Scripture before while the believers shall increase in faith. 

The believers and those who have been given the Scripture before shall harbor no doubt to this declaration. And the hypocrites and the deniers may say, "What does God mean by this parable?" Thus, God lets go astray him who wills to go astray, and guides him who wills to be guided. And no one knows the Forces of your Lord but He. And this is nothing but a Reminder to the mortals. [2:26]

Over IT are nineteen refers back to the state of SAHAR, not over the Quran so any attempt to equate 19 to the Quran is going against the meaning and context of the verses! Edip's understanding of surah 74 is based on his belief in 19, and the Quran warns us to come to it with a clear mind:-

56:77 That this Qur'an is, indeed, a Noble Monograph.
56:78 In a well-guarded Book. [As conveyed to you]
56:79 This is a Book that none but the pure of mind can touch.

[Those who approach the Qur'an with minds contaminated with preconceived notions and extrinsic material, will never understand it. Mutahharoon = Those who rid their minds of blind following and false dogmas. (2:222). It is a common insult to say that men cannot touch it without wudhu (ablution) and women cannot touch it during menstruation. 

Why would God place hurdles in the way of approaching His Guidance?]

There are 19 anglelic powers as keepers of the Fire. NOTE, there are 19 angelic powers, not 19 on its own, so how can we take 19 as a magic number? The two are inseparable. "I have 2 cars at home to get the family about, my son drives one, I the other." 

Wow, I hear you say, 2? I have 2 eyes, 2 arms, 2 legs, what a coincidence! What have these got to do with my 2 cars? The same for 19 malaika, what have 19 coincidental occurrences got to do with these 19 malaikha mentioned in the verse?

And what about 3:7?
3:7 (The Book He has sent down, bears an important Principle.) He it is Who has revealed to you (O Prophet) the Scripture. In it some verses are Literal, while some verses are Allegorical. The verses that pertain to Permanent Values have been presented literally. These verses, Muhkamat, are the Essence of the Divine Law.

On the other hand, abstract phenomena, historical events, and the World of the Unseen are described in similes, metaphors and allegories (Mutashaabihaat) for your understanding. But those who are given to crookedness in their hearts pursue the allegories and try to give them literal meanings, thus creating dissension of thought. None encompasses their final meaning (of such as the Essence of God, His Throne, His Hand, His Book of Decree, the exact mode of Revelation on the heart of the messengers, the Eternity) but God.

Those who are well founded in knowledge understand why the allegories have been used and they keep learning from them. They proclaim the belief that the entire Book is from their Lord. As the human knowledge evolves, more and more allegories will unfold their literal meaning (41:53). But only the men and women of understanding will bear this fact in mind.

It says that those with a crookedness in their hearts will take the symbolic verses as literal. Allegorically the 19 malaika are mentioned, and Edip et al take it to mean a literal19 code. Why does he not understand there is an 8 code in the Quran? [No! I am not going mad!]

69:17. And the angels will be on its sides, and eight will, that Day, bear the Throne of thy Lord above them.

Eight malaikha bearing the throne of Allah, 19 keeping hellfire, why one allegory ignored and another literalised? Answers on a post card please!

No, let me tell you, It is about ego. I mentioned that 19 might be about the numbers 1-9 that make up mathematics and the laws of nature, my eureka moment, but I am not that vain to carry this belief to new lows by manipulating the Quran to serve my understanding; ego made 19 the god of Rashad and Edip. They could not give up something that made them popular, ignoring the protests and the true refutations of their beliefs.

2:18 Deaf, dumb and blind of reason! They will not return to journey in the right direction (unless they use their perceptual and conceptual faculties. 8:22, 16:76, 17:36).

Edip accuses all who do not believe in 19 as blind, indoctrinated in hadith and falsehood; he says we are ingrates for not accepting the 19 code RK discovered and which he is promoting. I say that such statements are only an attempt at mental persuasion of the gullable; if you are not a 19 coder, you are a hadithist, not a Quran only follower. This is another lame argument.

I will let you work out who are the gullible [lap up everything], who are Rashad and Edip from the following tale [PS, I am the little boy]:

Once upon a time there lived a vain Emperor whose only worry in life was to dress in elegant clothes. He changed clothes almost every hour and loved to show them off to his people.

Word of the Emperor's refined habits spread over his kingdom and beyond. Two scoundrels who had heard of the Emperor's vanity decided to take advantage of it. They introduced themselves at the gates of the palace with a scheme in mind. "WE ARE TWO VERY GOOD TAILORS AND AFTER MANY YEARS OF RESEARCH WE HAVE INVENTED AN EXTRAORDINARY METHOD TO WEAVE A CLOTH SO LIGHT AND FINE THAT IT LOOKS INVISIBLE. AS A MATTER OF FACT IT IS INVISIBLE TO ANYONE WHO IS TOO STUPID AND INCOMPETENT TO APPRECIATE ITS QUALITY."

The chief of the guards heard the scoundrel's strange story and sent for the court chamberlain. The chamberlain notified the prime minister, who ran to the Emperor and disclosed the incredible news. The Emperor's curiosity got the better of him and he decided to see the two scoundrels.

"Besides being invisible, your Highness, this cloth will be woven in colors and patterns created especially for you." The emperor gave the two men a bag of gold coins in exchange for their promise to begin working on the fabric immediately.

"Just tell us what you need to get started and we'll give it to you." The two scoundrels asked for a loom, silk, gold thread and then pretended to begin working. The Emperor thought he had spent his money quite well: in addition to getting a new extraordinary suit, he would discover which of his subjects were ignorant and incompetent.

A few days later, he called the old and wise prime minister, who was considered by everyone as a man with common sense. "Go and see how the work is proceeding," the Emperor told him, "and come back to let me know."

The prime minister was welcomed by the two scoundrels.
"We're almost finished, but we need a lot more gold thread. Here, Excellency! Admire the colors, feel the softness!" The old man bent over the loom and tried to see the fabric that was not there. He felt cold sweat on his forehead.

"I can't see anything," he thought. "If I see nothing, that means I'm stupid! Or, worse, incompetent!" If the prime minister admitted that he didn't see anything, he would be discharged from his office.

"What a marvelous fabric, he said then. "I'll certainly tell the Emperor." The two scoundrels rubbed their hands gleefully. They had almost made it. More thread was requested to finish the work.

Finally, the Emperor received the announcement that the two tailors had come to take all the measurements needed to sew his new suit.
"Come in," the Emperor ordered. Even as they bowed, the two scoundrels pretended to be holding large roll of fabric.

"Here it is your Highness, the result of our labour," the scoundrels said. "We have worked night and day but, at last, the most beautiful fabric in the world is ready for you. Look at the colors and feel how fine it is." Of course the Emperor did not see any colors and could not feel any cloth between his fingers.

He panicked and felt like fainting. But luckily the throne was right behind him and he sat down. But when he realized that no one could know that he did not see the fabric, he felt better. Nobody could find out he was stupid and incompetent. And the Emperor didn't know that everybody else around him thought and did the very same thing.

The farce continued as the two scoundrels had foreseen it. Once they had taken the measurements, the two began cutting the air with scissors while sewing with their needles an invisible cloth.

"Your Highness, you'll have to take off your clothes to try on your new ones." The two scoundrels draped the new clothes on him and then held up a mirror. The Emperor was embarrassed but since none of his bystanders were, he felt relieved.

"Yes, this is a beautiful suit and it looks very good on me," the Emperor said trying to look comfortable. "You've done a fine job."

"Your Majesty," the prime minister said, "we have a request for you. The people have found out about this extraordinary fabric and they are anxious to see you in your new suit." The Emperor was doubtful showing himself naked to the people, but then he abandoned his fears. After all, no one would know about it except the ignorant and the incompetent.

"All right," he said. "I will grant the people this privilege." He summoned his carriage and the ceremonial parade was formed. A group of dignitaries walked at the very front of the procession and anxiously scrutinized the faces of the people in the street. All the people had gathered in the main square, pushing and shoving to get a better look.

Applause welcomed the regal procession. Everyone wanted to know how stupid or incompetent his or her neighbor was but, as the Emperor passed, a strange murmur rose from the crowd. Everyone said, loud enough for the others to hear: "Look at the Emperor's new clothes. They're beautiful!"
"What a marvellous train!"

"And the colors! The colors of that beautiful fabric! I have never seen anything like it in my life!" They all tried to conceal their disappointment at not being able to see the clothes, and since nobody was willing to admit his own stupidity and incompetence, they all behaved as the two scoundrels had predicted.
A CHILD, HOWEVER, WHO HAD NO IMPORTANT JOB AND COULD ONLY SEE THINGS AS HIS EYES SHOWED THEM TO HIM, WENT UP TO THE CARRIAGE.
"THE EMPEROR IS NAKED," HE SAID.

"Fool!" his father reprimanded, running after him. "Don't talk nonsense!" He grabbed his child and took him away. But the boy's remark, which had been heard by the bystanders, was repeated over and over again until everyone cried:
"The boy is right! The Emperor is naked! It's true!"

The Emperor realized that the people were right but could not admit to that. He though it better to continue the procession under the illusion that anyone who couldn't see his clothes was either stupid or incompetent. And he stood stiffly on his carriage, while behind him a page held his imaginary mantle. Their nonexistent 19 is made visible by their weaving the Quran every which way but truthfully!